As the country continues to shelter-in-place, the design community has been making big adjustments to their work flows. On this episode of the Chairish Podcast — called Design From A Distance — design industry insider Michael Boodro examines how design will proceed now that every detail, from presentations to orders to installations, needs to be done from a distance. Guest interior designers Tish Mills, Courtney Coleman and Katie Leede join to discuss how to remotely motivate your team, reassure clients, and much more.
In this episode, our guests tackle:
- How technology has changed the way we work, both at the office and at home
- Operating remotely, exploring different technologies and how to best connect with your team while working from home
- Ways to stay on top of your workrooms and artisans to make sure your workflow is flowing smoothly
- Suggestions about how to lead your team remotely through a crisis and adjust to stress of the unknown
- The impact of COVID-19 on projects both in-progress and coming down the pipeline
- The importance of home, now that we’re spending so much more time in them
Additional resources:
- The WFH Edit via Chairish
- Virtual Reality: Top Designers’ Tips for Working Now via Chairish
- Three Warning Signs That Your Remote Employees Are Starting To Crack Under The Stress Of Working From Home via Forbes
Connect with Chairish and our guests on Instagram:
- Chairish: @chairishco
- Michael Boodro: @michaelboodro
- Courtney Coleman: @brockschmidtandcoleman
- Katie Leede: @katie.leede @katieleedeandco
- Tish Mills: @tishmills
Lead Photo Design by Brockschmidt & Coleman / Photo: Peter Murdock
READ AND LISTEN TO THE ENTIRE EPISODE:
Michael Boodro 0:00
This is a Chairish podcast and I’m your host Michael Boodro. Thanks to technology, we’ve all become familiar with working out of the office. But now we are forced to work remote, most of us are stuck at home and separated from our teams. So how can design proceed now that every detail from presentations to orders to installations needs to be done from a distance? How do you motivate your team, reassure clients and stay on top of your work, rooms and artisans to make sure your workflow is flowing? Is your staff working remotely or not even remotely working? I’m happy to welcome three incredibly talented women to talk about the trials and tribulations of working remotely and appropriately enough, that’s exactly how we’re recording this podcast. First I want to welcome Atlanta designer Tish Mills whose firm, Harmonious Living by Tish Mills is perfectly named. Tish is known for bringing freshness and serenity to traditional rooms and softness and ease to contemporary spaces. Hello, Tish. Glad you’re here. Courtney Coleman’s firm, Brockschmidt and Coleman, where she runs with her partner Bill Brockschmidt takes a classical approach to interiors, but infuses them with jolts of energy via bold and unexpected colors and pattern mixes. The firm is based in New York but recently opened an office in New Orleans where she is today. Welcome, Courtney.
Courtney Coleman 1:45
Thanks for having me.
Michael Boodro 1:47
You’re welcome. Last but not least, I’m happy to have with us, New York based fabric and interior designer, Katie Leede. She creates richly colored and playful rooms full of charming patterns and lush textures, and many of them come by her home fabrics and wallcoverings which are sold at showrooms across the country. Hello, Katie.
Katie Leede 2:06
Hi, Michael. Thanks for having us.
Michael Boodro 2:09
It’s gonna be fun. So I want to get a sense first from all of you how much you worked remotely before the Coronavirus crisis. And then we’ll get into habit change. So, Courtney, you have an office in New Orleans and you live part time down there? So how much work did you do remotely before all of this?
Courtney Coleman 2:26
Honestly, not very much. And I think one of the things that we always loved in our office was that kind of collegial atmosphere. We love being able to talk to each other, get opinions on things, find out what was in progress and get updates on things that we’re working on. So one of the things that we tried to do early on when we opened New Orleans was figure out a way to replicate that as much as possible. And we looked at a lot of different options like Microsoft Teams, and Google Hangouts and Slack. And we settled on Skype chat. We hardly ever use it for video phone calls but we have these kinds of running text conversations all day long, that are kind of the same things that we would be talking about in the office. So that is one way that we had been tackling that, but our preference really had not been to work remotely. We’ve loved being in the studio together.
Michael Boodro 3:21
Tish, how about you and your team? I mean, obviously, you travel and things like that. So how did you stay in touch with him before all of this?
Tish Mills 3:28
Exactly. We primarily work in the studio. Again, we feed off of each other’s energy, and it’s all about the collaboration. However, because we do work in different parts of the country, we do work remotely. And a lot of it is done by FaceTime, phone, email, all the things you would expect, although Zoom is going to make a big presence and moving forward for us because it’s been really great. But beyond just our team, I do a lot of construction in other parts of the country. So there’s a lot of FaceTime. A lot of builders have video on site so that you can check in on progress if you’re not there. So I tend to use it more for projects and with my team.
Michael Boodro 4:10
Right. Okay. And Katie, what about you? Because you did not only interiors, but you have your fabric line that you need to produce? So how did that work for you?
Katie Leede 4:20
It’s a big, big shift. For me, I have to say that I had one project up in Los Angeles, where the client was just impossible to nail down because she was always in different parts of the world. And honestly, it was really hard to move things forward because I just couldn’t reach her. So I had to start saying, okay, when you’re in Paris, can we please just talk for one hour, and we’re going to FaceTime. I’ve got your boards all set up and mood boards. We’re gonna go through them, but I’m gonna walk you through with all the samples via FaceTime, et cetera, et cetera. And that actually was very successful but I agree. I think Zoom and the new products that are inevitably going to come up now are going to be very tailored toward our business that will allow our clients to be more involved in the process, not less involved, and be able to see progress. I think incredible things are gonna come out of this. I think we’re just at the beginning, imaginative phase of what is to come. I’m fascinated to know what’s going to come out of this.
Michael Boodro 5:31
But design is a very collaborative business. As Courtney, you were saying, you know, it’s also a very physical business. I mean, there’s the textures, and there’s the fabrics. So how do you think this is going to continue as we go along? Because it’s not quite the same. I mean, I imagine you all used Pinterest and Instagram, before the Corona crisis. But how do you think that’s gonna change? Courtney, let’s start with you again.
Courtney Coleman 6:00
Well, I think following up on what Katie was just saying, it is really interesting to think about what’s going to happen next. And one of the things Katie has always done that we loved are these kinds of periodic emails with new fabrics. And we always love seeing that. It was a great introduction. Yesterday, we had our first fabric and furniture presentation with Rose Tarlow Melrose House. And I was so blown away with how professional and how choreographed this presentation was. It moved really fast. We got to see the new collection of fabrics. And they explained how they felt and what they would use them for. They had really great things to say about the furniture in particular how it felt and what the scale was, if you weren’t able to see that immediately from the photographs. And it’s something we never in a million years would have taken the time to do in normal life. Because everybody’s so busy. And you know, it was wonderful. We would definitely do that again.
Michael Boodro 6:54
But in normal times, you might well have gone to the show and sat in the chairs. So do you think that is going to create more confusion with clients? Or do you think you know, is it a harder sell to clients? I suppose to say, I experienced this year, virtually, I’ve experienced this fabric virtually, you should go with it.
Courtney Coleman 7:12
Maybe. I think that it definitely is going to change the way that designers work, because the information is so much easier to get and understand. And in terms of how it works for clients, I don’t know. I mean, I think that we’re all buying a lot of stuff online that we have never seen before, from Chairish being primo among those sites. And I think that people are getting more comfortable with that anyway.
Michael Boodro 7:38
Right. What about you, Tish? Are your clients willing to go along with you, when you say, you know, I think this is the right chair or this is the right fabric for your drapes? whatever it might be, your curtains or your chair upholstery. Are they willing to do that? Or did they really still want to see a sample that you then physically mailed to them or delivered to them via FedEx, whatever, so they can feel it? How willing are your clients to go with technology?
Tish Mills 8:04
They’re fairly willing, but I’m in a really unique position, and that my office is at the design center. So while I’m not technically there now, although lately, we seem to have had to quickly run over and meet deliveries because we had just ordered a lot. But with existing clients and long term clients, we’ve spent so much time in the building with them and we’ve had so much experience in, you know, the way they like to sit in a chair or a sofa or finish samples, or fabrics are such that there’s a high level of trust. What I’m noticing and projects, even during the last few weeks, I’ve started new projects, which is a little different, but it’s been very interesting. And that, as a side note, I really believe there’s gonna be a big boom, as soon as this is over. Because people are at home, they’re doing the same thing that I seem to be doing looking around the house, thinking, well, we’ve put this off now let’s, whatever.
Michael Boodro 9:06
I totally agree. There’s going to be pent up demand.
Tish Mills 9:09
Right and it already seems to be happening. But with the newer clients, I have had to have more of the conversation of, we’ve been doing this for a long time. I’m happy to send you finished samples and order them for you because all of the reps have been absolutely amazing during this period. All of the showrooms, you know, manufacturers have been reaching out and asking how can we help you. We have a skeleton staff, let us send you things, and let us assist you. And so we’ve already started to have samples sent directly to houses and in that a duplicate said to us and then starting to have phone calls. It’s fine. You know, I love in person working, but when working in other parts of the country again, you can’t always be there. So there has been a bit of experience with this. I just think it will likely expand as we move forward.
Michael Boodro 9:58
Right. I would tend to agree But I think there’s probably also some problems. Katie, I mean, you make your own fabrics and many of them are so textural and beautiful that you have to see them up close. And you do beautiful marketing. I get the same email as Courtney. But is it a frustration for you that something you’ve worked on so hard maybe is getting judged on an image?
Katie Leede 10:22
I have a couple of thoughts about this one. I don’t think it’s an either or situation. I think that we’re all finding our way in this new world, right. So we have these new tools that are going to become available to us. And I love Courtney, thank you for sharing that about Rose Tarlow. I’m a huge fan.
Michael Boodro 10:40
Yes, we all are.
Katie Leede 10:42
I think it’s going to be a combination of technology and materials because we are a central business and the home is such a place of soul and love that you want to be able to connect with people on their most human basic level, which is the stuff, the feel, the touch. So I think it’s one of those things like having the double set of samples sent, one set to you and one sent to the client, but to be able to share stories of inspiration of how things are made, and why they’re made. And then in terms of actual manufacturing, like we’re working on a new wallpaper line that is all inspired by a recent trip to Morocco, on all these doors that I saw. And I’m doing a set of five new wallpapers. And so we sent the physical paint samples. We have our own set, and we send those to the person who’s helping us make those. And we’re sharing screens to talk about, and they’re sharing their digital mock ups. And we’re comparing colors. So much can be done in the virtual world. But we just have to support it with the real textural touch and feel too. I don’t think one is without the other.
Michael Boodro 12:04
Right. In terms of your clients, that’s one thing. But I want to also ask you about now we’re in this strange situation where you don’t have your team, right by you. You have to communicate with them and how does that work? Is that a frustration? Because I mean, I know myself that some days you wake up and it’s like that Internet meme where every day is Groundhog Day. You don’t know what day of the week it is, you know? So is it hard to motivate your team at a distance? Like Courtney, why don’t we start with you again?
Courtney Coleman 12:37
Well, early on, when this shutdown started happening, we were talking to a lot of our friends and colleagues about how they were going to handle it. And one of the best pieces of advice we got was to have these morning zoom calls with the staff. So we started doing that first thing in the morning. And it gives everybody a good motivation to get up and be presentable and be ready to talk about what’s on your agenda. And you know, it helps it feels like going to work, which is most appreciated. Then we decided to start having them in the afternoon, too. So we do it twice a day. And it’s really great. Everybody has said how much they’ve loved getting to know each other better through these zoom calls, and especially integrating the New Orleans office and the New York office. So that’s definitely been a great silver lining. And then we also have these Skype chats going all day. And then we have phone calls with people who are working on particular things that need to be discussed further. So that’s been a good thing.
Michael Boodro 13:41
Tish, I wanted to know about how you function on a day to day basis with your team? Do you have a daily morning meeting?
Tish Mills 13:48
Well, when things started to shift, you know, when we were like, oh, there’s something happening out in the world. We keep everything on a drive for clients. The team jumped in and did an amazing job of making sure every document, every presentation, every construction document, everything we could need was already loaded into each client folder. So very quickly, we were able to transition away at least with all the visuals and files. We typically do status several mornings right out of the gate when we’re in the office, just to make sure that we’re all updated, because everybody seems to be going in different directions. So we’ve continued to do that on the phone. I’m incredibly fortunate that I have a very, very motivated team. So even before I’m getting my cup of coffee to sit down and you know, I’ve gone through my initial emails. I’ve done what I need to do in the morning. I’m gonna sit down and dig in and I’ve already got so many emails of things that people have done as follow up so we just stay in a lot of contact. We’ve done some FaceTime, but we’ve pretty much emailed each other, done a lot of text and have our morning calls, but I mean, so far, it’s gone fine. We’ve kept all of our projects moving, which is great.
Michael Boodro 15:10
I think it is important to try and keep some sorts of sense of normality, you know, a routine within this. Like, I mean, I know, I make my bed every morning. You know, that’s kind of important to do that. And how about you, Katie? I mean, you have a couple of teams. How do you coordinate with that?
Katie Leede 15:27
Well, it’s a good question, because I’m doing everything that everybody else is saying as well. And, also adjusting to creating a new routine for myself to keep my own spirits up, and so that you can be a good leader and also taking this opportunity of a shutdown, to find out what might emerge from this creatively for me. So I am trying to keep some open space as well, in the equation for myself, and actually learn to trust the team more, so we have the check in. But I’ve been relying on them to follow through with a lot of everything and what we did prepare the week before shut down with, you know, up to about April 15. Everyone took responsibility for different parts of the pie. And then of course, you’re reaching April 15, to be like, oh, my God. And then now what?
Tish Mills 16:29
It’s actually been a really positive experience. And it’s been a great reminder of the whole person, instead of the part you give to work, the part you give to family, the part you give, give, give, and it’s creating for yourself.
Michael Boodro 16:44
And also physically, that’s all been merged. Because we’re working at home.
Tish Mills 16:48
It’s been great.
Michael Boodro 16:50
Well not every single minute, Tish?
Tish Mills 16:53
Well, I will tell you that at the moment, there are four different rooms in the house being used by different family members for work of a different sort. Two of them are in class, and then my husband’s working, and I’m working and you know, we’ve all gone dark corners for the front.
Courtney Coleman 17:13
So how are you guys handling getting CFAs for fabrics and getting payment? Are they going to people on your team at their houses? Are you getting them? Or?
Katie Leede 17:25
I am but of course you don’t know, just establishing what’s open. And then of course, then establishing which of your work rooms are there to receive them. All that tricky business is a challenge for sure. But I’m going to receive the CFA just because I think I have a better color sense than anybody.
Tish Mills 17:45
Well, I would agree. Yeah. So about four weeks ago, when everything started to really shift, we started to think, okay, there’s going to be back orders. There’s going to be stock. There’s going to be you know, go down the list of all the there’s going to be. So we went to anyone that will be installing a house through the summer, basically. And so we got to order everything right now and I don’t normally do that. Everything was selected. But I was like, we got to bill and go. So our whole team did a stop, drop and roll to build all our projects that we need over the next probably four or five months. And then just hunker down and order, order, order. We got in a lot of our CFA’S before it all shut, however, we’re still getting them. I live close by. In Georgia, we’re still considered essential. I don’t know if it’s that way everywhere but we are within the okay zone to be out and about. And that brings up a whole other thing, which is construction because construction hasn’t stopped here.
Courtney Coleman 18:53
Right. Yeah, the same in New Orleans.
Michael Boodro 18:55
It has stopped in New York.
Tish Mills 19:00
So we’ve taken turns running by the office. The very first day, one of the first things we did was give the UPS and FedEx delivery people our cell phone numbers for the two of us. So when they’ve got somebody on the truck, they make sure they reach one of us. It’s been great. They are laying stuff against the door if it’s an actual fabric delivery or they call and say we’re coming if it’s a big delivery, and one of us goes in. We’re appropriate, being in our distance and all of that but then as we get a big enough pile, we do call or text the work room and say if you guys are still working and you want to pick up this pile, feel free. But we have not been shipping directly anywhere. Just in case.
Michael Boodro 19:47
It’s a lot of awkwardness. And I think what you were saying digitally, the important thing is communicating with everybody and making sure they know how to reach you and whatever. I wanted to ask – you guys all mentioned something I thought was very important which was the word trust. But in terms of your team, because listen, I know several bosses of mine in the past used to think that whenever they were out of town traveling, the whole office was goofing off. I mean, on the contrary, it’s usually where we got the most work done because they weren’t bothering us. And we weren’t having a million meetings. So you could actually get a lot of work done. But has this heightened for you guys, your understanding of how your team works? And who are the strong members? And who are maybe aren’t such strong members of your team? How does being at a distance, sometimes it makes things clearer? And I’d love for you to talk about that in terms of how you deal with your team and evaluate your team and trust your team. So Courtney, you start?. I’m always putting you first.
Courtney Coleman 21:54
I’m still thinking about that. I think that since Bill and I have spent so much time in the studio with our team, we were really used to keeping tabs on the progress of projects. And it has been interesting working remotely. So I think one of the things that we’ve been trying to do is keep these running lists. And like Tish was mentioning, we moved a lot of things on to a drive that’s accessible all the time by anybody. So we have a master shopping list. We have task lists for each employee. We definitely have task lists for the two of us. We have to be consulting every day. I would say sometimes we have really been so impressed by the thought that employees have given to getting something accomplished. That wasn’t straightforward. Yesterday, for instance, we found out that one of our painting contractors in New Orleans had been hospitalized with the virus. And he was really one of the first people in our orbit who we had noted to be sick. And so we had to spend most of the day kind of unraveling all of the other people who are working on site and telling them what had happened and giving them the option to postpone or resume their work later. And you know, I was just so impressed by the employee who was handling that, with such grace and consideration for the other workers and for the family of this painter who is sick. And we certainly send our best wishes to him and his family. And so he’s going to be okay, because he’s a really nice man and a talented painter.
Michael Boodro 23:33
Yeah, I mean, the complications that arise during something like this, you could never predict what they are. And I guess, like you said, the fact that she rose to the occasion with such foresight and grace is really telling you what you know. I mean, I know that a lot of firms at this time, you know, it’s questioning time, whatever they’ve had to furlough or lay off staff. But I think the other flip side of that is you really come to realize who your star members are. And who are your top talents on your team, and then you want to keep them and reward them. And, Tish, have you experienced anything like that as well, in terms of seeing and learning something about your team?
Tish Mills 24:12
Oh, absolutely. Again, this all came up. It’s such an interesting time for us because we’re mid review season. But it’s given me the opportunity, as we’ve had conversations with people before we went home, to really talk about goals and really talk about growth areas and year over year growth. I love my team. I mean, I’m sure that most people would say that, but I’ve actually been so impressed with the same, the same comment. I’ve been so impressed with the way that people are stepping up and making sure things are happening, and to your point about, you know, when you’re out of town, and maybe people are goofing off a little bit, that actually doesn’t bother me, because I think that stimulates creativity. I think there needs to be some play time with what we do. So I think that part may be lacking a little bit right now, because everybody’s super concerned and head down.
Michael Boodro 25:23
It’s such a stressful time.
Tish Mills 25:24
Right. So today, you know, it’s Friday, we’re not working that hard today. It’s okay, because we’ve worked hard a lot of other days. But I’ve been super impressed. My bookkeeper has done an unbelievable job on the whole billing side. And I continue to badger him with projections and the portions of what’s gone out versus what needs to go out. And, you know, all the financial sides to make sure that everything’s super solid through this period, since we aren’t having the face to face. So I’m asking for a lot more reports. And he is someone I trust with my life. Well, I basically do, given what he does for a living, but is absolutely phenomenal. But yeah, the whole team is just really stepping up.
Michael Boodro 26:15
And Katie, what about you? I mean, part of your team is, you know, the contractors you work with, your manufacturers, your work rooms.
Katie Leede 26:28
Well, you know, I think it’s wonderful that everybody’s having these positive experiences with their team. I think what goes towards building a lot of trust is actually sharing what this experience is for everybody. Not just saying, okay, let’s get to it, guys. Come on. But in fact, like how are you guys doing? It’s your family. Okay? How are you handling being isolated? And before you know it, that softening really does allow people to become invested more profoundly. And along the lines of how I say, specifically, of how that’s working, is that one of my team members, Eve, has called every single showroom and talk to every single rep, and has compiled sort of our own little internal marketing packet that has pictures of all the different people and what they said about their favorite designs, and by region, what they think are the best sellers and why and what they’d like to see more of. So it’s developing real personal human connections through this new technology. So it’s actually a warm experience through a cold medium. And it was so wonderful to watch her take control of a zoom meeting and present her slideshow with all of these different people who represent our brand across the country. And like, I didn’t know who all those people were. And we’re figuring out ways that we want to move forward, both virtually and in person to increase our sales. So it’s been really, again, kind of an inspired time for that reason.
Tish Mills 28:22
That’s really great.
Michael Boodro 28:23
Yeah, yeah. But now as this goes on, like you were saying, Katie, you know, April 15, it’s gonna come to that point. I would imagine it since I don’t think we’re going to be released from our, you know, confinement, shall we say? And then next, probably a month, maybe a month, if we’re lucky. But are you going to reach that point where you’re going to have to do remote installations? Or, you know, supervise somebody who’s doing wall treatments or something? I mean, how is that going to go as we go ahead, and you get further along those projects that were in process before this started? Has it something you’ve ever had to do before in general? And is it something that you’re going to be able to handle? Tish? What do you think?
Tish Mills 29:02
Absolutely. We’ve already started. I did a couple Instagram story snippets the other day of a lighting install at a house and the electrician and the builder. You know, we’d already predetermined heights but sending pictures during the process and you know, let’s get on our feet. Let’s get on FaceTime with the client. Make sure we’re all cool. And we’ve definitely done that. We’ve had one, I think at a small but long distance, install of furniture, which was fine. We got on the phone with them and checked everything before they left. So we have to do that at times anyway when we’re working long distance, but it’s definitely already started.
Michael Boodro 29:47
Yeah. And is that harder for you? Is it frustrating?
Tish Mills 29:52
I would say for me, it’s harder because I really love being there and touching and feeling. You know, we’re all very tactile and very much, you know, it’s part of the energy of being in the space. But it’s been fine. I mean, the good news is who we’ve had to start to do long distance installs with or not on site, so far have been people that we work with a lot. So they know what we’re looking for. I haven’t had to do it with any builders yet that I don’t have a long standing relationship with. That will probably be harder.
Michael Boodro 30:25
Yeah, that would be hard to imagine. What about you, Courtney?
Courtney Coleman 30:27
Yeah, same thing. We’ve had a lot of zoom and FaceTime chats from job sites and various locations. And a couple, well, actually, most of them with contractors that we haven’t worked with before. So it’s been really interesting to ask them, can you please just hold? We’ve sent full scale templates of light fixtures, for instance, can you please just lower it an inch. So far, everybody’s been really patient. And also the two projects that we have coming up for installations here happened to be for super, super organized clients. So in terms of figuring out where stuff has been delivered and when, they have really been great members of the team, and helping us figure that out, so that it’s all going to happen, hopefully in time. Well, you know, and as someone said, a few minutes ago, the idea is you just have to be so agile. Every day is different. So you have to be ready to respond, change plans, and midstream if necessary.
Katie Leede 31:25
I’m having to practice patience and preach patience a lot too.
Michael Boodro 31:29
Well, I think management is hard under the best of circumstances. But managing in these uncertain times, when we really don’t know what’s going to happen six months from now, must be very hard. How do you go about reassuring everybody that you work with – your team, your artists and your contractors? I mean, I think that’s got to be hard but are there things that you say to them? Are you very direct with them? Do you soft pedal? How does that work for you guys?
Tish Mills 31:55
I was actually going to bring this up if the question wasn’t asked. The first thing that I did with my team was reassure everybody and tell them that my goal is to keep the family together, keep the team together. Please don’t freak out at any moment. If anyone’s having to freak out or having uncertainty, please reach out. Don’t let anything fester. Don’t let your mind take off. You know, the mind chatter. Let’s talk about it. My goal is for everybody to be okay. So let’s just breathe into this. We don’t know how long it’s gonna last. The good news is we’re in a strong place right now. The economy is so strong that as we move through it, when we come out of it, there’s going to be a boom there too. So I had very direct one on one conversations with my people, and with the builders and artisans. I’ve told everybody that you know, the things we have on the docket are on the docket. It doesn’t mean we may have to pause because the state or the government is telling us we have to in certain areas. If that comes up, we’ll do that. However, what we have planned, we have planned, so I’ve just tried to be very out in front of it and very compassionate, but strong, that if I’m not showing fear, because I actually don’t feel fear. I feel very centered through this process. And I feel very much like this is a universal pause. And I mean, looking at how the actual Earth is responding to us slowing down, is really beautiful. Yeah, so I’m looking for all the beauty in it, and all the beauty that’s gonna come out of it. And I don’t wear rose colored glasses. I just really feel positive.
Michael Boodro 33:44
Yeah. And I think the other thing that’s important for me to remember is, you know, we’ve lived through crises before. Absolutely. You know, I lived through, you know, the AIDS crisis, I lived through 911. But a lot of young people, and I imagine you all have young people on your team, have never experienced anything like this. And so I think reaching out to them is incredibly important. But it’s not easy. You know, again, somebody comes to you with their fears, and you don’t have the answer. Yeah. How do you handle something like that Courtney?
Courtney Coleman 34:16
Well, I think that’s really true. And I think that talking about these past crises, including 911, the stock market crash in 2008, the AIDS epidemic, and even I was talking to one of my neighbors here in the French Quarter, he reminded me that there were about eight times in his lifetime when he just thought the world was going to end. And we’re all okay. We’re even better. That was a really happy thing to hear.
Michael Boodro 34:38
It’s one time one of the cases where experience really does count.
Courtney Coleman 34:41
Being old is good. Exactly. So when I guess in early March, when we started seeing what was on the horizon, as Tish was saying, we talked to our people in New York in particular, because we’re kind of jammed in the studio there. And we said, you know, we would like to think about having you guys work from home. And we talked about that for a little while, and they said, well, actually all of our friends are already working from home. So we thought, okay, well, we got our IT person and immediately who got everybody’s computer setup, got a VPN established, got the software that they needed to work at home. And they just kind of left the next day and started working from home. And since then, we’ve tried to be very positive. We’ve tried to be transparent about what’s happening in the office with all of the projects and to make everybody feel like they’re part of the team, and that we’re all pulling through this together. One thing in terms of reassuring clients, that was interesting. We’ve also tried to be really transparent with clients and checking in with vendors constantly, to let them know the status of things and one client for a project in May. And we were doing a big order for several beds, and we hadn’t quite decided he was going to do the fabrication. And one of the main contenders wrote us an email kind of during the process of deciding and said that they had actually been called to build beds for a field hospital here in New Orleans, and they would not be able to do the work until sometime later in the year. So we told that to our client, and she said, well, that’s who I want to do the job. You know, obviously, they’re good citizens, and I want to support them. She was very happy.
Michael Boodro 36:25
So Katie, how about you? I mean, you’re a very positive person. But I’m sure there are moments?
Katie Leede 36:30
I want to say something positive about what Courtney just said, which I think it’s a really interesting component of moving forward is this community aspect of design, and that people will want to invest in companies that are making a difference. And that part of the story ends up being a really great mutual selling point for everybody, including the earth and for the bigger, bigger, better causes out there. I think practicing empathy is really, really important, reassuring clients and developing a sense of humor. But one thing that I think has been awesome, is reaching out to peers that you admire, and getting strength and support from them. Like this podcast, for example, how wonderful to be with you, my friends today, and then storm and norm, and also set up these cocktail parties with various designers, you know, that are standing cocktail parties, where we can share what we’re learning, but also just crack each other up. I think that’s really important during this time, so it’s a combination of keeping yourself in good spirits, but also, and God knows, I’ve had, you know, really productive days and days that have evaporated, like, I do not know what just happened.
Michael Boodro 37:54
You know, I think we’ve all had those.
Tish Mills 37:57
I would admit that I have those. Anytime. We don’t need a pandemic, for me to have days of, what happened? I don’t seem to have accomplished something and other days where I’ve conquered the world.
Katie Leede 38:07
But when you’re at work and plugging into the grid of work in a very focused way, people give you tasks. Like you may not know what happened, but you’re probably pretty darn productive. I would say that’s true of me.
Michael Boodro 38:20
It’s easier to maintain the illusion.
Katie Leede 38:24
Amen. And also you’re not the full you, you know. This is an opportunity for us to discover this fuller, bigger picture of ourselves.
Michael Boodro 38:35
I do think it’s so interesting that as we’ve been forced to go apart, and be in our separate spaces, I think we have come to appreciate each other more. Absence does make the heart grow fonder, and I know, I’ve been reaching out to friends that I hadn’t talked to, or people that you just took for granted, in a sense. And I think that’s really important on a work level, as well, that the people that you work with, on whatever level as a contractor or your team member or client or whatever, that it’s very important that you let them say what they need to say, as is also when you’re conveying information to them. I mean, a couple of you mentioned transparency, and I think that is so true. I mean, you don’t want to give away state secrets. But people don’t need to know more about the financial side of your business than they need to, but to let them know that you’re here, that you’re there, you’re gonna solve their problems and that you’re listening to them, I think is really, really crucially important at this time.
Courtney Coleman 39:37
No, I was gonna say back to Katie’s story about her employee who did the slideshare with the routes. Just getting to talk to vendors during this quiet time has been kind of great. They’re people who are really friends, but not people that we necessarily see socially a lot. But we love and admire them and it’s just been great to be able to reach out to them and say hello, that we appreciate what they’re doing, and to see how they are during this crisis.
Michael Boodro 40:04
Yeah, and not only is it a good deed, but I think it helps your business because you learn things, you know, when you talk to people, either professionally or personally. You learn things and that helps you too as you’re going about your creative business, because you’re all in an incredibly creative business and there are new things that you’re going to learn. And I think one of the things that has impressed me too, is how many formal and informal organizations there are in the design industry. Like, you know, zoom or cocktail parties, Katie was mentioning. Tish was mentioning, you know, the idea that some people get together with other designers once a month, every six weeks and have a glass of wine, and they talk about things they’ve discovered, and I think that’s becoming ever more important. And this separation, again, has emphasized how crucial the need to communicate with each other is and the need to be in touch with each other is a business of personal relationships, design, and so much so. And this can reinforce it. And like you were saying, Courtney, you really learn something, you know, if you talk to a rep that you don’t talk to on a normal basis. You can find out so many more things about what they do, or the business or what other people are doing that’s going to be helpful to you. So I do think communication is evermore important during all of this uncertainty.
Tish Mills 41:26
I couldn’t agree more. I mean, it’s been very interesting how many designer friends from around the country that you don’t talk to that often that all of a sudden you’re talking to, or the different showrooms that have reached out. And I mean, I love it. It’s been great. But we’ve taken it to the point of reaching out to old clients and colleagues and people not wanting anything, but just to say I was thinking about you.
Michael Boodro 41:54
I think that’s so important. It’s still a painful and tragic crisis for so many people, for all of us, but really, so many people are suffering and it’s a horrible time – how do we get something positive out of this? What’s going to come out of it? And what’s going to come out of it in terms of design and home design? I agree with you and I see what we’re saying and I said it before, home is going to become evermore important that people are spending so much time there and realizing what a shelter it is and how crucial it is in our lives. So how has that influenced design? So Katie, let’s start with you since you raised the issue.
Katie Leede 42:33
Okay. I think it could impact it in a lot of ways. I think about how necessary flexible spaces are going to become. Dining rooms, desks, you know, work home desks, where our public shared spaces were private spaces. How can they be both in the same place, like, for example, retractable doors, you know, open living arrangements that can then suddenly become closed off spaces? Like I saw Nina Campbell on one of these podcasts or whatever, her dining room has these etched glass doors that are retractable doors, so that when they’re closed, they still let a lot of light in. So you are still creating a feeling of openness that not only is there surprise behind the door, but it’s also privacy. So you can create multiple environments that can move between shared living and more private use. I think that even things like how home is organized is going to become really important. And how enjoyably organized it is, like for me, like how a utility closet is organized becomes a source of fascination. So that’s enjoyable for the owner, like how to make that quite a beautiful experience. I think bars are obviously going to become very important!
Michael Boodro 42:48
Very important already! And the kitchen certainly is so important. What do you see Courtney?
Courtney Coleman 44:13
Well, I think one of the most touching things over the past couple of weeks, as we’ve had notes from clients who have said, how much they just love being in their places. And, you know, you think, obviously they like it, because we’ve been through this project together. And it was a personal experience for them. But they said, you know, we are having this quiet time in our house and we have just loved being here. So I think that people are going to feel like their houses are an important thing to spend money on. And frankly, over the past few years, we’ve had so many clients say well, I might rather go on a private trip to Morocco.
Michael Boodro 44:51
It is that idea that millennials want experiences rather than objects.
Courtney Coleman 44:56
Rather than objects and rather than spend money on your home. So I think that proves that it’s important and also to spend time around things that are personal and that are meaningful to you. And one of the funny things about that, we have a friend in the French Quarter here and a couple who are friends in the French Quarter. And the husband is on TV a lot and the wife said the other day that he’s always moving furniture around to get the best backdrop for his TV show. And he won the competition between TV show commentators the other day, so that’s another funny thing. Maybe our houses are just gonna have different backdrops. You know, we’re all thinking about our zoom backdrop.
Michael Boodro 45:37
Right, exactly. The virtual backdrops versus real backdrops.
Courtney Coleman 45:41
And in fact, I got a funny email this morning from Fromental, who was suggesting that you could have one of their beautiful wallpapers. I thought that was so funny. You know, another thing we saw after the 2008 crash is that people were focusing more on permanent and lasting parts of their houses. So we would love to see people looking more at antiques and things that are available. There are no supply chain issues with furniture.
Michael Boodro 46:08
Here. Antiques are here, you know. They can be shipped to you there, wherever.
Katie Leede 46:14
They can stand the test of time. They already have.
Michael Boodro 46:17
Yeah. Okay. Tish, what about you?
Tish Mills 46:22
I fully agree that as people are spending time in their houses, they’re cocooning. You know, they’re pulling inward. So one of the things that I’m already noticing is the client’s areas of their house that they thought were important, may not actually be the most important part of their house. It may be the more private areas. It may be converting a public area to talk about what Katie said, but I think that the way people use and view the different parts of their houses are going to change.
Michael Boodro 46:56
Right. Well, I think a lot of people thought they would use their house one way and when they are actually spending time there, they’re using it differently.
Tish Mills 47:02
Right, that’s exactly what I think is happening. And it’s interesting. With clients, a lot of times, I do work with both spouses on projects. A lot of times, I only work with one spouse, because the other one is a captain of industry. The thing I’m noticing, as these, you know, corporate executive CEOs, are now working more from home and it’s not just at night, there’s a lot more consideration into what that home office looks like. One of my clients for a very large job is a head of supply chain management worldwide for a very large corporation. So I mean, God bless his soul right now. I mean, I don’t think he sleeps. But he took the time the other night, of course, it was like three o’clock in the morning, to send me an email to say, I never knew how much I loved my home office until I’m running worldwide out of it. So thank you. However, here are some things that I would love to add or change or do so even the people that you don’t work with as much are taking time to evaluate their spaces, which is great, because then it becomes even more personalized for them. Again, I think the uses in spaces are going to change. One thing that we really push a lot on is proper lighting, when we’re working on a project. And homeowners a lot of times will do that. Other times they’re like, you know, it’s not a primary space and it’s a home office, I’m hardly going to use it. You know, we’re really fairly persistent about what goes into that space and the mix of natural light, task light, ambient light, you know, to make that golden triangle so that you can really work beautifully in a space. I think that sell, in that becoming a consideration point moving forward for people will be easier, because homeowners don’t understand how important that mix of lighting is in their space. But now they’re staying in their spaces so much. They really want good lighting.
Michael Boodro 49:10
Yeah, exactly.
Tish Mills 49:13
Right. And just the mix in the amount of time people are in front of their screens at home right now versus at the office and having the right mix so that their eyes don’t get tired. You know, and then obviously, the comfortable chair, you know. It can go down the whole list, but I think lighting is going to become even more important.
Michael Boodro 49:30
I think that’s probably true.
Courtney Coleman 49:31
I think I read online this week that lighting sales were at 18% in the past month.
Michael Boodro 49:38
I would believe that.
Katie Leede 49:39
I think also, things like television where you can plug in your computer and add things in a larger format. You know, that kind of thing is going to become important. Entertainment areas. How do you rethink entertainment also, like game tables?
Michael Boodro 49:58
I was gonna say take your puzzles because puzzle sales are through the roof!
Katie Leede 50:02
Yeah, backgammon, you know, all that kind of stuff.
Tish Mills 50:06
I do agree with the television comment, because I’ve even noticed in our house, those in the family that are way more technologically advanced than I am, will take something from their laptop and throw it up on the television so that they can work on it. I mean, I’ve appreciated, having helped being able to do it, I could no more do it than fly to the moon. But I do agree that, you know, being able to see on a good big scale will be, but that’s for people like us, you know.
Michael Boodro 50:35
Right, great. Well, I do think that one thing that is going to change is that now that we’ve all experienced having to work remotely, once we no longer need to work remotely, we’re going to want to work remotely more than we did in the past. Yes, I do think it’s in a way liberating to know that with the tools like zoom, and Pinterest, and all that stuff that you can use. And I’m wondering if you guys think that that’s going to change, once this virus, you know, is cured, we have a vaccine, there’s a treatment, and people can assemble together. Do you think that you would give your team more leeway about working, wanting to work remotely more, travel more whatever? How do you think knowing that you can get work done remotely is going to change how you work in the future?
Courtney Coleman 51:26
I think that’s a really good question. In fact, I was just talking to a colleague about that yesterday afternoon, and neither of us had ever really been very keen on having people work from home or work remotely. And we both said, yeah, we would totally be into that now.
Katie Leede 51:40
I think you can sometimes get a lot more work done without the cacophony of everybody else interrupting you all the time. I know that for a long time, one of my right hand gals takes all of Wednesday morning off to do billing and things like that. And because she can’t stand me basically saying, and what about this? And what about that? And what about this? And so I also think one of the things that is helping us is to put timelines on projects while we’re working remotely. Like okay, so when will you have that done by? When will we check in with you about that? When do you think you can present for that? And then we put it on the calendar. Is it okay? Do you have that presentation ready or do you want to take today and work from home so you don’t have the travel time? Do you want to work on that project? Like I think if it’s in a very contained way, it would feel safe to me, you know, where it has boundaries, not where something just expands to meet the time but in fact, you’re staying very focused.
Courtney Coleman 52:54
Yeah, but it goes back to that trust thing that we were talking about earlier. Now that we’ve all tried it, and we’re seeing that it works to whatever degree, I think we would all be open to letting people work from home a day or two a week.
Katie Leede 53:07
Including ourselves, by the way, yes.
Michael Boodro 53:10
I think it should be liberating for you guys. Because I would think like, once we all feel not terrified to get on a plane and go somewhere, then in a way it can be liberating for you.
Katie Leede 53:21
Enriching. Yeah, very artistically enriching.
Tish Mills 53:25
I already do that. I love when I need to write, when I need to sit down and really focus in and write whether it be something for a competition or for an article or you know, whatever, something where I just really need to get inside my head and let words form. You know, I’m a visual person so I got to work a little harder at that. I tend to stay home to do that. And just, let everybody know, I’ll be in at this time. If Rome is not burning, please give me these few hours.
Katie Leede 53:58
Do you have guilt surrounding that because I’m having to really wrestle with a lot of guilt around my shifting perspective around all of this?
Tish Mills 54:09
I don’t, because the productivity of sitting down and really allowing myself to climb into a project and write my way out or whatever, draw if it’s working on a plan and I just got to get away, makes me a lot more productive. So the time is shorter, so then I can get back into the mainstream of work. The flipside of it is, it doesn’t bother me if I have team members work from home because I trust them. I tell people that works for me, I’m not going to babysit your hours. If there’s something that causes a question, I’m going to ask you. If I lose trust we have a bigger problem. Not in a threatening way but I’m going to trust you. You know it’s kind of, hate to say this, almost like with the teenagers, don’t give me a reason not to trust you. Let’s just be adults about this and do the work we need to do. Although we all love being in the office, it doesn’t bother me if somebody wants to work from home, and I would welcome it moving forward.
Michael Boodro 55:06
And this is another side effect of working remotely. I think we find parts of our homes we use for totally different purposes than we thought we would.
Tish Mills 55:15
Oh my gosh, isn’t that the truth? We were talking about that last weekend with the kids. Because I am acting like a homeowner, by the way, I keep looking around and ordering things that I need, or, you know, hopping in and finishing a project around the house, or, you know, y’all are all nodding your head. So we’re all doing it. But last weekend, beyond all the parts of our house, we are eating dinner outside on the patio table. We’ve used the firepit, you know, several of the kids are using the hammock, like I’m noticing that our space is actually expanding. Even the use of it, even though the actual space isn’t expanding, which I’m finding really fascinating to watch.
Michael Boodro 55:55
Okay, well, is there anything else that we need to talk about that we haven’t addressed that you guys want to add in here, because I think this has been great.
Tish Mills 56:03
The only thing I would add is for all of us to remember to keep our clients up. Because if they’re at home and they want to be out, I’m noticing that I have clients that want to be in their normal routine. And they want to be, you know, going to their yoga class instead of doing it at home or wanting to be going to Neiman’s or doing you know all the things through a day, to keep them happy in their spaces and up and positive.
Michael Boodro 56:31
It can be very frustrating for any you know, your clients, for you, for your team. And it can be very frustrating that you can’t, you know, I’m dying to go to a restaurant. There’s a lot of things going to be in pent up demand when we can finally get out and do things. But in the meantime, you’re right. It’s important to keep everybody focused and positive. It’s a rough transition, but we’re transitioning to something we don’t know quite what it is.
Tish Mills 56:59
I love how people now, instead of saying bye, people are saying stay safe or stay well. And I think that’s really interesting how it’s creating such a bigger world community, you know. It could be someone you pass in the grocery store, you know, could be whomever and there’s just so much more connectivity. It’s emotional connectivity that I really, really hope that that continues.
Michael Boodro 57:31
Right. Okay, well, I want to thank my wonderful guests Tish Mills, Courtney Coleman and Katie Leede, and thank you all for listening to the Chairish podcast.
