One result of the coronavirus quarantine is an increased appreciation for the great outdoors. Parks, beaches, and hiking trails are packed, and sales at plant nurseries are booming. What does this mean long term for America’s homes and backyards? In this episode, renowned interior designer Suzanne Kasler and landscape architect Janice Parker talk about all things garden—from elaborate outdoor kitchens for entertaining, the new popularity of loggias, chicken coops and firepits, why the sudden the rage for raising vegetables and the best ways to make the connection between indoors and out closer and more seamless than ever.
Additional resources:
- Decorating Homes with Suzanne Kasler via Elle Decor
- An Interview With Suzanne Kasler via Ballard Designs
- Janice Parker Thinks Our Obsession with Outdoor Living is Here to Stay via Business of Home
- The Collaborative Design Process with Janice Parker via the ICAA
Connect with Chairish and our guests on Instagram:
- Chairish: @chairishco
- Michael Boodro: @michaelboodro
- Suzanne Kasler: @suzannekasler
- Janice Parker: @janiceparkerjpla
READ AND LISTEN TO THE ENTIRE EPISODE:
Michael Boodro 0:00
There’s nothing like being confined to our homes for 10 weeks to make us all long to get outside, and to spark a growing high unintended appreciation for nature. There is no wonder country house rentals are booming, nursery sales are through the roof, and you practically can’t get your hands on a packet of vegetable seeds these days. Parks, gardens and beaches are packed sometimes to a worrying degree. City apartments without side space have become the emblem of a new luxury and outdoor cooking and entertaining. Simple charcoal grills or elaborate fully fitted outdoor kitchens are the new national pastime.
So what does this growing attachment to nature mean for our homes and gardens in the future? How will design adapt to and expand upon this desire for a connection between our homes and nature to make the experience of being home even when we’re forced to, more pleasurable, sustainable and rewarding?
I’m pleased to have with us acclaimed Atlanta based designer Suzanne Kasler, who has practically redefined gracious southern living for today with her softly colored, restrained and feminine rooms. Her line of furniture for hickory chairs is hugely popular, and she also designs a very successful line of outdoor furnishings and accessories for Ballard Designs. All you have to do is flip through any of her books and you will swoon and not surprisingly, her work has always celebrated a close connection to nature. Welcome, Suzanne.
Suzanne Kasler 1:49
It’s great to be here.
Michael Boodro 1:51
Great. I’m also happy to be joined today by celebrated Greenwich Connecticut based landscape architect Janice Parker. Janice has designed numerous gardens both public and private, traditional and contemporary. She has an innate understanding of and appreciation for nature and plants. But she also knows that gardens and parks are appreciated and maintained and they function as more than just beautiful views, offering dining, relaxing, swimming and opportunities to engage with nature. Janice was also behind one of my favorite moments in New York, driving along the Hudson River each spring witnessing the hundreds of cherry and crab apple trees in bloom that she was instrumental in getting planted. Hello, Janice.
Janice Parker 2:32
Hi, Michael, nice to be here.
Michael Boodro 2:36
Thank you. So I want to get started with talking about what was happening even before the COVID crisis. Because I think in the last, I would say five, maybe 10 years, there’s been such a boom and appreciation for outdoor living. I mean, I think a big part of it was the new outdoor fabrics that have been developed. You know, through science really, acrylics and stuff that used to be outdoor fabrics were stiff canvas, and then now you can get velvet suede, and all kinds of incredible outdoor fabrics. Furniture became more high style. I think everybody turned to the southern and California way of living in the Northeast, where I live. For a long time, people felt it wasn’t worth investing much in outdoor furnishings or whatever, because you couldn’t be outdoors that much. Now we treasure every minute we have from March to November. And also we saw that in interior design. Suzanne, I think you’ll agree with botanical prints, green became an increasingly popular color and decor. What do you think sparked that? And how is that going to continue? So why don’t we start with you Suzanne?
Suzanne Kasler 3:37
Well, I have always connected interior design and exterior design. And I know that on all of our projects, whether it’s a renovation, or new build, I always talk to the clients about having the entire team together from the very beginning. Because I really want a house to have a whole flow that is not just the interior, but how you flow from the interior and exterior. And I do think that the LA way of living has always been an inspiration and such a favorite way that we think of living. They always have never had even an issue with any having to screen anything. So you literally can have your indoor space and exterior space so connected. So I have always felt that that was kind of one of my favorite ways of living. And years ago, I started trying to bring that concept into our interiors and create what we call exterior rooms. outdoor rooms. But it’s really kind of been something that I have been working with, you know, for like you said many years, and it’s been a huge big thing and also it’s been so exciting and for all of us, you know working with the architect and landscape architect and the interior designer. You know how we can really create a lifestyle because today design is creating a lifestyle for our clients.
Michael Boodro 5:07
Right. Now, Janice, you have worked with many interior designers and famous architects. And what’s the best process for you? Do you think it’s important to be involved at the beginning, as Suzanne would suggest? Or how often do you have to deal with a house that’s already been built, or, you know, an apartment that has a terrace that has been worked on? How does that work for you and for your team?
Suzanne Kasler 5:30
So we would probably have 30% projects that exist and 70% projects that are being built. So in the process of new construction, we are there from the beginning, because we’re an integral part of the permitting process. And we are working with the architect. And usually, there is an interior designer on board. So it’s very important. Also in an existing space, I asked people to have an interior designer. I know what I do, and I’m a landscape architect. There’s so much great furniture out there. And there’s so many things to know about it, that I really prefer people to have an interior designer that I can work with, because I find that they bring so much to the table. And what’s the most enjoyable process for us is to talk about the indoor outdoor connection as early as possible with the architect and the interior designer, because for years, I’ve created great terraces, that I thought were great. But if they can’t be furnished, they’re not great. And if they don’t hold the furniture, and they don’t allow the spaces to be what the people really need to be comfortable outside, then they’re not great terraces. And I think the goal for all of the team, and certainly for us is that we draw people outside because they’re going to come right out into a domesticated space, they are going to go from an interior room that’s comfortable with chairs and tables and things they’re familiar with, to go outside to have that same sense of comfort, and connection. And then they can walk one step further. And we try to make the segue between them in nature. So the goal is to get them out, they’re comfortable. And then I kind of let the universe do the other part. My job is really easy that way, because mother nature will send in light and birds and sounds and gorgeous weather and they’ll get up and they’ll go out. But they’re not going to just do that from a door. It doesn’t make sense. I’ve got to come into another environment.
Michael Boodro 7:40
Right, kind of a trend. So the garden is sort of a transitional space almost in a way. That’s how I view the house and the wildness of nature.
Janice Parker 7:49
In an ideal world, that’s my thinking. You know, if you’re going outside on a terrace, a penthouse terrace in New York, my thinking is still that once they’re comfortable outside, they’re going to float out and sense what’s really going on. I mean, with everything that has been going on the last few months, I realized I am not really sitting outside and looking at the moon very often. And I did it last night thinking that we were speaking today, and thinking about what it is to go outside and sit in a comfortable chair and look up.
Suzanne Kasler 8:22
Yeah, everything has changed for that. Yes, it’s been interesting, what has changed for all of our clients, is they really have been spending so much time out in their outside spaces. And a lot of them reached out to us, especially early on, kind of really appreciating that we had all taken the time as a team to create that connection. So they could kind of go back and forth. And like you said, enjoy their kind of space that they’ve maybe never really been able to enjoy to the extent that they have recently.
Michael Boodro 8:56
Right. It’s interesting. I’ve been a weekend gardener for years. But now I’m living in my country house. And I’m out in the garden, not only every day, but probably eight times a day taking breaks from work during lunch. And that intimate connection. And in a way it took me a while, you know, I wasn’t used to it because it was like I’d come up on a Friday night or Saturday morning and I was like, oh, everything had changed during the week. But when you go day by day, you realize nature is very kind of slow. And it’s taken me a while to slow my pace to get out of the garden, you know, but it’s interesting to me. Like when I was young, which admittedly was only about 10 years ago, landscape design was rather an obscure field. It was kind of an afterthought to the building or the house. You know, the house would be done then you’d hire somebody to put some shrubs around it and soften the lines against nature, but it is really now you know, and you’re one of them Janice, landscape design superstars and I just love to get your thinking about what brought that about. And this is even pre COVID.
Suzanne Kasler 10:04
I think I would actually tip my hat to the design community editorial magazines, and overall notice of it because that’s what connects us all as a community. The interchange of information, you never would see a landscape architect or garden designer mentioned in a magazine. And now there’s usually a tagline for us. So I think it came about in a couple of ways. First of all, people have to recognize that you have to take photographs of your work, and you have to treat your work really seriously. Once you start to do that, then you can speak to other architects and to listen to interior designers and really show what you do. So I think there’s been an overall influx of more sophistication about treating what we do as a discipline that requires the same amount of attention. It’s not that easy to do. You’ve got to do more than go out with a Polaroid, you know, and which is how we did it old school and take a picture at noon. You know, I mean, early on, people would put out a book on gardens and you could tell it was all taken the first two weeks of July at noon. You know, and they all look the same. And they all look like the same time of day.
Michael Boodro 11:30
Right? Yeah, my friend who was a famous stylist for house and garden for years. And she always said, everyone thinks my life is glamorous. She said, they have no idea I have to be up at four in the morning, every day be out and you know, get the whole team assembled and be out there at 5am. Really, because that’s when the lights start.
Janice Parker 11:50
People like John Hall and Durston Saylor, and, you know, so many photographers and architects and interior designers started to realize what could be brought to it. But it’s a specialty in itself to be able to show what happens outdoors.
Suzanne Kasler 12:07
And I do think the editorial things that you were talking about Janice, you know, when we started sharing the country houses in, whether they’re in our country or other countries, and we started seeing that. And I do feel that as a whole, we all love going out to that LA way of living. And I think then we all started wanting to bring that back because it only enhanced the architecture and interiors, and all of us that have a passion for design, we really see that the three dimensions together have a different impact on the whole creative process. And as we’re talking that we’re really creating this lifestyle for our clients, it isn’t just about decorating, or like you said, planting. It’s about how we’re living. And I do think about that whole thing with editorial and the sharing and look at all the Instagrams and all the things that have happened with our sharing of visuals. People really are being inspired and really wanting that as part of their design. So when they come to us, it’s not just with an interior photograph. And I think Janice, you’ve seen this and as you said, we also get involved early with the landscape architect, and I will say, you know, they have three teenage girls, and they cannot fit in the pool. And so we really work together on how it’s going to live. And really, you know, they have ways they want to use the outside as well.
Janice Park 13:32
Right? Absolutely. And it’s really not a landscape architect’s training to really know how to – I mean, some people are very gifted and just know how to set up a really inviting space that feels like an interior exterior, but I love the interaction.
Suzanne Kasler 13:50
Yes, I always love it. The landscape architects always accuse me of having too many thoughts on it, because I really have a passion and a vision. I think in my other life, I might have been in the landscape architecture business because I just think it is just such a key part of our design. And it’s exciting to see Janice, how all of us have kind of been able to really connect,
Janice Parker 14:16
It’s so crucial, you know. It’s really a team effort. And the more you work as a team, and the more you collaborate, the better the project gets for the client. And I really believe that everybody brings something very important to the table for the client. And it’s very important and you know, we will be concentrating a little bit more on how to use, not so much living areas but a bench or an object, a beautiful piece and maybe only the interior designer would know where to find it or get it from here or get it from there to keep drawing people. So they’re gonna go further out and away from the house, but they’re not necessarily on the terrace. So it’s a collaboration, you know, the interior designer helping us and the client understand how to move through the garden and enjoy it, not necessarily just in the areas, they’re going to spend time. It makes it an itinerary, really.
Michael Boodro 15:14
Right. You’re leading them down the garden path, Janice,
Suzanne Kasler 15:16
We are. Right into trouble!
Michael Boodro 15:21
But I think that’s so true. I think a lot of people are afraid of nature. And having a garden designer or working with an interior designer who understands the connection, even if you can’t afford I mean, a lot of people cannot afford a landscape designer, not that you’re that expensive, Janice, I know. But, they’re afraid of it as an abstract thing. You know, plants die and they get freaked out about that. And as you pointed out, Suzanne, a lot of places that aren’t in California need screens. People are terrified of bugs or birds, whatever. But I think that has changed so much in the last 10 years. And you know, now with outdoor dining and entertaining, fancy kitchens, and the wine coolers and refrigerators and the outdoor sinks has become a huge business. And I think that has changed the way people see outdoors as well. And I just wanted to know, what do you think is going to happen next? Because one of the things that’s always amused me about gardens is there are trends in gardens just as there are in interiors, you know. There used to be very formal gardens then, more recently, there was the rage for mass plantings. Pete Rudolph and Yat-Sen. In Sweden, the grasses, remember, there were whole gardens of grasses for a while. So how do you think people look at their gardens as related to their homes? And what do you think’s coming next?
Suzanne Kasler 16:38
Well, one thing that we’ve seen happened in the last few years, -you know, before, we would certainly talk about it architecturally, how the interaction would happen with the exterior. But now, and then we would, you know, get the house all designed, and then we’d all say, okay, we now need to go outside? And what’s it going to look like? And what furniture are we going to get there? Today, I have just seen a huge, you know, and it’s just like a big change in the business, about exterior, whether in its exterior furniture and exterior, like you said, the lighting, the objects, and the things you’re doing outside. So that has been the biggest change. And our clients are coming even with that kind of sensitivity, and wanting to really invest in that. Whereas before we were all like, you know, we just would get some furniture for the outside. But now it’s a big part of the budget as well, because they’re wanting more than just usually one space. You know, that sequence of space. Is there a place by a pool, if there is a pool, is there now a fire pit, that’s kind of a destination, where you can kind of go and have these kind of little kind of intimate get togethers with a fire going? So it’s kind of been interesting to see or like the little far away that’s kind of out in the garden. I do think that it’s a huge focus. And now we are having to incorporate that into our budgets and into our interior design planning. The outside as part of the architecture.
Michael Boodro 18:16
So that’s a big shift.
Suzanne Kasler 18:18
It’s really big. And as you said, I’ve just seen so many options today for outside furniture. And we continue to design more. And like you’ve mentioned earlier, Michael, all the fabric options, making it not even feel like you’re outside.
Michael Boodro 18:35
Absolutely. And Janice, have you found that your client base has expanded as a result of this awareness? I mean, are different kinds of people coming to you than previously?
Janice Parker 18:45
I have. And I think you know, to address just one thing you’d said before, I mean, the space has become very aspirational. It’s opposed to just okay, there’s the terrace. It’s an aspiration, to have something of beauty outside, even if you have no budget. You know, I mean, there’s some great books called Eccentric Gardens and things like that, where people just do what they do outside. You know, Venice Beach is a great place to walk around and see that kind of thing. And we encourage that, absolutely. But we also recognize to manage people’s expectations, we ask people to put aside a certain percentage for what will fail, because we are you know, I’ve often said to interior designers, I don’t know if you’ve heard this one, Suzanne, but someone might be very, very unhappy with the wallpaper and the colors at the end of the day or the furniture. But when you go back to look at it, it isn’t dead. It’s still there. You know what I mean? Your house didn’t crumble into a pile of nothingness. You know, there’s still a couch. It’s still there.
Suzanne Kasler 19:53
The hurricane, the storms, the frozen, when it gets an early freeze, yes. You have to deal with a lot of other things. We have to deal with the other things, all the pets and everybody that comes into the house.
Janice Parker 20:05
No, I get the wildlife. I suddenly became a wildlife expert in the last 10 years. Wildlife is incredibly annoying.
Suzanne Kasler 20:15
They’re eating all the flowers and all the plants.
Janice Parker 20:18
Everything! Every single thing out there and the wildlife during COVID as they’ve talked about so many places, like the bears are now in the parking lot of Yellowstone when no one was coming. I don’t know whether it’s my imagination or not. You can tell me what’s going on in Europe. I’ve never seen so many birds.
Suzanne Kasler 20:18
I have never seen so many birds. They are nesting in our trees in ways that I have never seen before. And I even mentioned the other last week. I mean, we’ve always seen birds, but they’re really like, happily flying everywhere.
Michael Boodro 20:57
I have seen species I’ve never seen before. It’s amazing.
Suzanne Kasler 21:00
And why do you think that is? Why would that happen?
Michael Boodro 21:03
I think there is less pollution. Yes. And less traffic. Less people around. Listen, my house is an hour and a half from New York City. And there’s a brown bear that has been spotted in the neighborhood. I have seen a bobcat. I mean, you know, an owl. I’ve never in my life actually seen an owl.
Suzanne Kasler 21:21
We have an owl. We have an owl that I swear we’ve never known that it was there.
Janice Parker 21:27
They’re spectacular, aren’t they?
Suzanne Kasler 21:29
They really are and they blend into the tree. It’s very hard to not even see them. But you can hear them first.
Janice Parker 21:236
I know. They’re fantastic. And they will clean up those chipmunks.
Michael Boodro 21:40
I have a plethora of them. I see baby ones running around like mad.
Suzanne Kasler 21:44
That owl will be taking care of that for you. You have become an expert in animal behavior, Janice.
Janice Parker 21:52
We have and we have a lot of problems on the waterfront. Yes, Ospreys are a real problem. We learn all about them. And it is an issue for certain situations. It’s absolutely an issue, like the deer, the deer pressure on everyone’s gardens. It’s very significant. And it really is a challenge. You know, it really is a challenge. But there’s that element of explaining to people that this is maintenance and there will be replacements, and it’s going to change, and it’s going to shift. I think that really helps. Because otherwise people can be quite disappointed. And not understand, you know, that you know, I’ve left them with all these puppies and kittens and left, you know, and I’ve had people say it to me that way, what do I do with all these things that are alive? How do I feed them? How do I take care of them? You know, and, and so there’s that issue, but I do think that we could notice industry wide. There’s a way to do this very inexpensively to go outside and enjoy yourself. And also a way to do it when you have the time to plan. So many people right now have not had the time to plan because suddenly they were home. And they never expected to be.
Suzanne Kasler 23:13
I do think that they have been surprised at how much they are enjoying it, because of the timing of this whole thing. You know, spring is always the kind of summertime, in a lot of parts of the country, one of the most favorite outdoor times after being you know, inside for the winter. So the timing was interesting as well to be at home this much. And then to be really able to experience spring like maybe some of us haven’t appreciated for forever. And I just had so many people noticing it and talking about it. We’ve had people really kind of rethink how they lived in their house. And a lot of the people that we’ve worked with had kind of planned it. But it’s been really I think kind of an interesting time and I think it’s going to only continue.
Michael Boodro 24:59
I do think that this COVID crisis, you know, has changed everything. And it’s sparked a much more intimate connection with spring with nature. And I think that people have learned something from this. So they’re not going to want to give up, you know, the sort of connection they’re feeling. So I’m curious about what both of you think is going to happen next, please God let there be a vaccine treatment, at least a vaccine soon, so that life can get back to somewhat normal. It’ll be a new, different normal. But you know, how do you think it will affect the way people think about their homes, in their environments or larger environments?
Suzanne Kasler 25:39
Well, I think that what has happened, even more than ever, is this appreciation for home. And all of us in the design world are seeing that. I think it’s going to be a real positive influence and impact for all of us, because that sensitivity and appreciation really translates into them, even needing our help to create some of the environments that they realize they either have or might want to. We have a lot of our clients now that actually work on houses where they have more than one home. And they were going from one home to the next. And I do think that appreciation, and even people that were in their apartments, I mean, it just seemed like everyone was talking about their homes, and how important it is. And all of us who have been in the design business, that to me has always been so critical how we make people’s lives better by creating a lifestyle that is about your home. So I kind of liked the appreciation, and the sensitivity toward that. And the business side of it is going to be really positive for all of us in our industry. .
Michael Boodro 26:55
And what about you, Janice, do you think that people are going to want to be spending more time and money on their gardens?
Suzanne Kasler 27:00
I do, in an interesting way. So I was born and raised in New York and been in and out of New York, and what we’re seeing is an enormous need of people wanting to leave. Yeah, you know, they’re wanting to leave. And I’m not saying that’s a good thing. But it’s happening, yes. And certainly to not be in the city. And then in New York, where there’s so many people dependent on the theater arts and the arts in general. And that’s really challenging. And we’re getting calls a lot that have to do with how their life has changed because of the pandemic. So throughout the suburbs, for sure, people have been renting, like mad like, just renting anything. They also have great sense we’re finding from people who are calling that there is no time to build. They want to move and they want to move. Now they want to get their kids into a school or if they’re going to work at home, and their children are going to be at home, they need a bigger home. They have to have home offices. They think they may stay in a home office, maybe two home offices. And they’re not sure that they ever want to commute again. I mean, there’s a lot of that so I think there’s going to be an enormous amount of renovation work and people buying, you know, moving to a larger house or a smaller house. Not just moving out of the city but just rearranging and noticing not only how much as Suzanne says, they appreciate their home, but also noticing the changes they would like to make, right? Does that mean a difference?
Suzanne Kasler 28:55
Or adding an addition on to the home that they already have or renovating? We’ve got right now like three renovations happening and what happened in the middle of all of this, they all need an exercise place at home that they did not need. So as Janice is saying, we have this kind of continuing, like almost in a way it’s happening. How you’re really using your home differently, aside from the home office, and that’s a huge, big change. We were putting home offices in a lot of second homes, but not always as many in the main home. It was interesting so that’s kind of now being, like you said Janice, switching around. You know, one thing that we find whenever we’re doing a home office, we always want an outdoor space with it because they like to be in the home office and take their laptop or their phone and go out right outside and maybe sit and do some of their business dealings, you know, outside but very close and connected to their home office. So we’ve been seeing that kind of thing happening.
Janice Parker 30:05
I think that this change, you know, is at warp speed. People are resistant, generally resistant to change in many ways and will, you know, maybe just dig in their heels to it and stay in one place or stay in their home. And this has been the fastest amount of change I’ve ever experienced in my pretty long life. And it is just at warp speed. Things are so different. And they’re going to stay so different. And I don’t really know anything that hasn’t changed, that affects the way people work and the way they live and the way they raise their children and their families and how they feel about their grandparents and their older relatives. And I’m not sure people know. I do think that I’m so proud of how everybody has handled the changes. Do you know what I mean? People have leaped into doing their business remotely. They’ve led right into figuring out how to handle homeschooling and working. I’ve seen people you know, when everything is normal, we can all operate pretty well. But in a crisis, you really see what people are really made of and what they’re really going to do. And I’ve been so impressed by sort of the very, very quick decisions like Suzanne is saying, let’s renovate and let’s make a new gym. They’re very quick decisions, but they’re being done in a very logical fashion.
Suzanne Kasler 31:35
Well, also creatively, it’s interesting. I have certainly felt really creative. There’s time to be creative. And again, when people like Michael, you were saying the time that you’ve had to enjoy your garden differently, during times of the day that maybe you would never do before. I think that’s happening in people’s homes. And then like we were also saying this whole connection to cooking outside, and even playing outside. I know the other morning, I had gotten my new furniture outside by my pool. And I went out to read. And I don’t know that I had thought about doing that before because I love looking at my outside, but I didn’t experience it as like where I was really comfortable. Like that’s another destination. So what’s interesting, though, for all of us in design, it’s kind of just reinforcing what a lot of us, Janice, had been doing all along. And maybe now people are really taking advantage of it.
Janice Parker 32:39
There’s nowhere to go.
Michael Boodro 32:44
You go outside. You’re not going to the theater and you’re not going to a restaurant.
Suzanne Kasler 32:49
That’s right. It’s kind of interesting how we’re all kind of, you know, maximizing all of our options at our home.
Michael Boodro 32:59
And what I find myself doing well, between zoom meetings or whatever, is running out in the garden and weeding, you know, there’s something very meditative about it.
Suzanne Kasler 33:09
I have not done that.
Michael Boodro 33:11
It takes me out of whatever I’m doing and just 15 minutes and God knows there’s always plenty of weeds there. You don’t have to worry about that. So it’s just a very zen kind of meditative thing.
Suzanne Kasler 33:21
As it gets hotter, Michael, they slow down. You’re going to be fine in July and August. Now they’re just busy right now.
Michael Boodro 33:30
Then I’ll go out and water.
Janice Parker 33:31
Yeah, yeah, you’ll be fine in a few weeks.
Michael Boodro 33:34
But that does bring up something, another aspect of gardens, which I think people are discovering is, you know, we tend to think of gardens as, you know, space. You sit in spaces, you look at their design, they go with the house, or they don’t but hopefully they go with the house. They go with the style of the house. They have a style. Thank you, Janice. But I do think that gardens are really healing. And I think that that’s an aspect of nature, that people are rediscovering as well, if they ever knew it at all. And I’d love to get your guys’ takes on what that means for the future? I mean, is there going to be more ecological awareness, climate change? You know, I mean, God knows we have had some severe weather due to climate change. How do you think people are going to think differently and feel differently about their outdoor spaces?
Suzanne Kasler 34:19
Well I think that it is going to stay because we’ve been seeing this trend even before, that the appreciation and the extension of the architecture to the outside. And as I said we would call them, you can almost create an interior room, but you’re outside. So I think that was already happening. What’s happened now is people had more time to really understand that it really can be a dimension in their life. That’s kind of really important. And so like you said, Michael, everyone’s had time to reflect and be more creative and I kind of think that’s the positive part. What do you think about that, Janice?
Janice Parker 35:05
Well, you know, a funny anecdote would be that I have many clients who have never gardened and never intended to garden. Who you know, during the quarantine did not want gardeners at their house and they’re FaceTiming me to ask me how to put the lavender in the pot. You know, and these are people who’ve been near a pot or a lavender plant, you know?
Suzanne Kasler 35:32
You have such diversity in your skills, Janice.
Janice Parker 35:34
Yes. And so you know, so, I mean these are people who really wanted to do it. There wasn’t much else to do in quarantine. Right. So there’s an enormous amount of them educating themselves about what this is. Do I want to do it? Do I care about it? But I think that gardeners garden on a fire escape, they garden on a windowsill, they’re always going to garden and people who really love it, there may be some new acolytes, right. But people who love it have always loved it. There is a big trend towards doing vegetables and doing a vegetable garden.
Suzanne Kasler 36:09
That’s what I found people were doing. I have so many friends that have started a vegetable garden or an herb garden. They’re starting small, and that’s kind of been what I’ve seen, because they really want to incorporate this into their cooking. I think the big thing, like you said, Janice, people are really cooking now. And I think that’s going to be another big trend. You know, our kitchens are no longer just for hanging out. They’re really being used differently than ever. So with these vegetable gardens, it’s so fascinating how many of my friends have and then they have added those chicken coops so they have their own eggs. That’s been a trend for a while, but we’ve had people again, mentioning that. So that is an interesting dimension that’s happening, you know, the cooking and the outside. And then that kind of connection. It’s kind of fun, you know, because all the people that we know were watching those cooking shows, like Ina and Martha Stewart, always went to their garden to get their things, the eggs and all the things and bring it back in. And so I think that’s been fascinating.
Janice Parker 37:17
And I think that’s been a reaction to COVID. And being more nervous about shopping and thinking, what can I do to remove myself from, you know, the business not just for my health, but for you know, more organic, but just in general. And luckily, growing vegetables is very easy. And I always think back to you know, I will age myself, there was a PBS show called Mr. Crocketts Victory Garden and I grew up watching it and adored him. I have all his books. And the victory garden after World War Two was real. If you plant a couple of zucchini, you can feed the neighborhood, and you will have more zucchini than you know what to do with it. And I have been, you know, absolutely thrilled to see that people are really doing that, because it’s very rewarding. It’s very fast if they put out, you know, lettuces.
Suzanne Kasler 38:15
Because it’s been farm to table. And I mean, that’s been a trend happening, certainly in the restaurant business, and people now kind of have been wanting it. I’ve just been surprised that they were kind of incorporating that into their own homes.
Janice Parker 38:30
I was too. And if you have to support, I’ve had a lot of people supporting those artisanal growers because there were no restaurants and no schools open. So the people who are growing vegetables for the service industries, and the artisanal vegetables, let’s say here in the Hudson River Valley for the restaurants, the restaurants closed down and they can’t sell their crops. So they’ve been making baskets and delivering fresh organic vegetables that are amazing. So you know, people said I could do this.
Michael Boodro 39:00
Yeah. But I think also I grew up, you know, vegetables came out of a can, or they were overcooked to death. And I think people didn’t know what vegetables were. And when you really get fresh vegetables, it changes your whole view of life. I mean, I think that’s another thing that’s, you know, I mean, yes, you can end up with $1,000 tomato by the time you’ve built the beds and you’ve got the dirt. But I think there is this sense that people are really discovering something that’s very primal. And as you said, Janice it is not that hard. I mean, yes, you have the bugs. Yes, you have the deer, but you know, you’re gonna get a lot of zucchini, because even the deer don’t like them.
Suzanne Kasler 39:37
And also having it shared, you know, like when you see, like I said, whether it was Martha Stewart or Christopher Spitzmiller, they’re all the chicken people. And then the people, Steven Brooks Giannetti when you start seeing and you kind of relate to them and it makes it seem more like something you could incorporate in. In social media too, the whole sharing that we do right on social media. And it kind of came back to that in the beginning, you were talking about that, Janice. I do think that sharing is inspiring and is enabling people to really do things that maybe they never would have thought of doing before. And then, like you said, having the time, because before, maybe none of us had thought about taking the time to focus on some of these other dimensions in our life.
Janice Parker 40:23
It’s very challenging, because the town halls are closed. And so you have to be communicating with them in a different way. But we’ve been trying to permit chicken coops in people’s front yards for a while. Though, some of the towns around here, you know, they’ve never been asked, so they are like I don’t know, maybe you can do a chicken coop in the front yard. So you know, I’m not sure if you want that. But there’s been quite a few that have cropped up in the last few weeks. And it’s pretty amusing because the town doesn’t even know what to say. We don’t even have a regulation for chicken coops.
Michael Boodro 41:04
So funny. So I clearly think there’s going to be more chicken coops in our future. There’s going to be more vegetable gardens. What else do you see? I mean, do you think there’s going to be more glass in houses, more sliding doors or french doors that open up outside? How do you think this is going to be reflected in next year in terms of design, indoor and outdoor?
Suzanne Kasler 41:23
I just think like you said, maybe the outdoor space will be thought of and, you know, like we are working on a couple of renovations. And we are making more of the windows into doors, you know. We’re kind of looking at how the flow is so you can go inside and outside. And so I think that’s kind of one step forward that we’re seeing in the architectural interior design part of our world. And I think that again, I had been seeing this for many the last, like you said, three to five years as a huge focus, a big change anyway, this whole outdoor way of living as part of your main house. I just think now, people have had time to understand how important it really is to be, you know, maybe before they would do it, but they didn’t really understand the dimension of it. Unless they were in one of their second homes. And they’re really doing it in their main main homes now.
Michael Boodro 42:21
Right. Janice, what do you see coming because God knows there’s trends in flowers. I mean, it seems like now suddenly, everybody I know has a black purple Iris. You know, so what do you see people wanting? What are they asking for? What do you think they’re going to be asking for?
Janice Parker 42:37
I’m suggesting the apricot Iris myself. I have my eye on where they are and that’s how I ended up in this business. My first memory is of a peony, of a flower like 18 months old. I would be cutting people’s flowers. I was waiting just like they were and it was terrible as I was a child. So what do I think? I think that people you know, the obvious things are, you know, the fire pits, the outdoor kitchens, you know, making sure you have great Wifi when you go out but I think it’s also going to be like Suzanne said, a couple of living spaces, not just one. Right.
Suzanne Kasler 43:14
I just ordered a ping pong table from Ballard for the outside that I never would have thought of doing. And it’s like you said, dimensions that we never even thought of creating outside.
Janice Parker 43:28
That’s right. And there are some great ones. We did one on a terrace last year. I think people, certainly in New York City, have always valued their outdoor space because it is so valuable, you know, that comes at a high cost. And therefore it needs to be higher I think. And it needs to function and it needs to function well. And one thing that you know, I’m sure Suzanne and everybody looks at though I do find architects need a little direction, is storage for all of the things that they are bringing outside.
Suzanne Kasler 44:00
Yes. That’s a huge part.
Janice Parker 44:01
It is a huge part of it.
Suzanne Kasler 44:02
That’s what they will call us about that. They’re ruined. The cushions are ruined. Like you said that the flowers are dead and the cushions are ruined. That is a reality isn’t it?
Janice Parker 44:15
It needs to be nearby. We’ve done some that are sunken in the ground so you can put the big cushions in them. But they only are 21 inches high to sit on or 18 inches as a bench but they go down into grades and so people can quickly put their cushions away because no matter how much you suggest, Suzanne would know, sling and furniture without cushions, people want to be comfortable.
Suzanne Kasler 44:40
They do and they want to also like we call it that lifestyle, creating a lifestyle just like the outdoor kitchens. Everything is designed now that you can like you said, the storage. All of that is part of the whole dimension to create a successful experience. So I think that’s kind of why they have the design team. We’re thinking of all those practical things to incorporate in, as well as the beautiful spaces that are being created.
Janice Parker 45:06
It’s definitely an interior designer who looked at one of my plans for an outdoor kitchen and said, what are you doing? Nobody wants to look at someone’s rear end while they’re cooking. Turn it around. Why have you got it that way?
Michael Boodro 45:25
Very good advice.
Suzanne Kasler 45:28
That is true. That is such a great one.
Janice Parker 45:31
And so that interaction, you know, I mean, I’m a landscape architect. I’m not a kitchen designer, right? So you know, it all works together. There is a certain amount, I think of extreme sensitivity to, I would almost even say a great deal of kindness, about wanting to be sure people are comforted and nurtured in their space. You know, that it not only looks good and works for them, because they eat out there once a month, but then they can find comfort all the time.
Suzanne Kasler 46:07
And one of the things that started happening for myself, which I’m thinking I will translate into my clients, I then found these tablecloths we had bought in France in the country that were all printed and colorful, and then I got out our beautiful crystal glasses from Prague, that were like this turquoise blue, that match. And what I’ve started seeing is this whole other dimension of entertainment, things that I need for outside aside from, you know, it kind of translates from the space to, like you said, the garden and then down to the tablecloths and all the things you’re using. So I think Michael and Janice, it’s going to be a really exciting time for a lot of people in our industry, and to bring in all these kinds of things, and people are really going to use them.
Michael Boodro 46:58
I agree. You know, it’s interesting, when you use your garden, or your outdoor space, maybe on the weekend, maybe things that didn’t quite work correctly, didn’t bother you that much. But when you’re out there everyday or having breakfast every morning, oh, this doesn’t work right.
Suzanne Kasler 47:18
That’s what I’ve been noticing. I need this.
Michael Boodro 47:20
I don’t mind being kind of annoyed. But then every day of the week, you’re a little annoyed. That’s not a great way to start the day. And I think that’s why people want to renovate. And I do think that if we have to entertain outside more with social distancing, we want to do it with style. And I think that you want the surroundings to be beautiful, you want the table to be beautiful, you want to have fun, you know. And I think that bodes really, really well, because even if we go back to a somewhat more normal, right way of working and living, I think we’ve learned lessons that will apply. I mean, I love the image of us sitting out in the dark, looking at the moon on that comfy chair Janice. I think maybe we all want to take a little bit more time, even when we are busy to enjoy our outdoor spaces in nature and the weather. And even if it’s a little buggy, you don’t have your screens. It’s worth it. And I think people have learned that lesson.
Suzanne Kasler 48:17
I agree. We think that’s great. We love that.
Michael Boodro 48:21
And a bunch of you are such examples of how to do that with style and grace and such talents. I’m so pleased that you could be here today. I really enjoyed our talk.
Suzanne Kasler 48:31
Well, thank you for having us. We love being together and sharing.
Michael Boodro 48:39
Thanks for listening to the Chairish podcast.
Lead image courtesy of Natasha Lee.
